Prop. 8 Still Ahead with 95.4% of Precincts Reporting -- And the Suits Begin

California's Proposition 8 is ahead 52% to 48% with 95.4% of precincts reporting as of Wednesday morning, the Los Angeles Times reports. The measure to ban same-sex marriage has collected 5,163,908 votes so far, with 4,760,336 votes cast against it.

Though proponents of Prop. 8 declared victory earlier this morning, No on 8 campaign leaders have refused to concede, saying too many votes still need to be counted -- including as many as 3 million absentee and provisional ballots, the Associated Press reports, although the Secretary of State’s Office could not confirm that amount.

Robin Tyler and Diane Olson

Even though the No on 8 effort has not given up, the first lawsuits are already being readied. Diane Olson and Robin Tyler, the first same-sex couple to be married in Los Angeles County last June, will file suit via their lawyer Gloria Allred. The new lawsuit will contain a new and controversial legal argument as to why Prop. 8 is unconstitutional. More on that this afternoon. (The Advocate)

Comments

[pb]

and now we'll drag it on...and on..and on.

[Mike Silverman]

The way I see it there are two (long shot) legal arguments that could be used:

#1 - argue that since the court demanded gays and straights be treated equally, so if gay marriage is banned, then straight marriage cannot continue either -- this would be pretty wild.

#2 - argue that since gay marriage was found to be a fundamental right, and fundamental rights can't be taken away by initiative (only by constitutional convention) then the entire initiative is invalid.

[Mark]

If Prop 8 passes, and the right for gays marry is taken away, then step one, boycott every "effing Mormon business" that is based in SLC starting immediately. Number two, demand an investigation in to the tax exempt status of the Mormon church. Number three, file lawsuits just as Robin and Diane are doing. Number four, fight! We are Americans, we have fundamental rights guaranteed by our founding fathers. And lastly, I was seriously thinking of relocating my business to California. As a gay man, probably ain't gonna happen now. I will look at Connecticut or Massachusetts where I have the right to marry and not be treated as a second class citizen. As happy and elated as I am that Senator Obama was elected; I am just as p*ssed off about this.

[Jammer, Cape Cod]

The way it is looking this minute, Prop 8 made it. So, unleash the lawyers in California, what have you got to lose? Our hearts go out to all our California gay and lesbian brothers and sisters (not to mention all the other states who were dealt hateful decisions on various marriage and adoption measures). Do not think that for one minute we married gays and lesbians sitting here in Massachusetts take our good fortune for granted. We don't. We know the struggle. Kick up some major dust. Don't go quietly into the night. The suggestion to boycott anti-gay businesses is a good idea and should be a universal strategy for all-anti gay issues across the nation. Find the power from all angles.

[Martin]

I am also elated that Obama was elected and upset that Prop 8 is probably going to pass. If you compare the number of California voters that supported Obama/Biden to the number that voted against Prop 8, you will find that over a million Obama supporters did not vote NO on Prop 8. That is roughly a sixth of the Obama supporters in the state. The Obama ground game in California was clearly not letting NO on Prop 8 ride its coattails.

[Eddie89]

My husband and I would be happy to join their lawsuit!

[Paul]

Further to Martin's point, the exit polls show African Americans overwhelmingly (70% at least) voted YES on Prop 8. Very disappointing that the same people crying and dancing because their dreams came true and proclaiming that anything is possible in America would help to throw another minority group under the bus. Clearly we as a community have more bridges to build, but we must make sure they are two way bridges and not bridges to nowhere.

[exiene lofgren]

As disappointing as the results in various states are. I am not down. The total votes were closer than they have ever been. Barak Obama became the first President to give Gays a positive statement in his acceptance speech last night, which is a first. His win should also be a point to consider...that with patience and continued hard work the change will come. Ler's not forget that in the Bush year's we still got several states to give us Marriage or Civil Unions. They are building blocks for us to build a better future. We have come a long way since Stonewall. History will show that Prop 8 was a speed bump and nothing more. I am not high on an Obama win. I am an American who knows history is on our side if we follow paths of those who sought freedom for others. We will have freedom too.

[Val Thogmartin]

While I am still keeping some hope going for the initiative to go down in California it unfortunately doesn't look promising. My heart goes out to all in California who were married and now may face anullment of their marriages. I agree with what has been said before about boycotting anything Mormon and using any viable way to fight the initiative in court. Being from the sometimes backward state of Ohio I know how it feels to have your state vote in an amemdment that marks you as a second class citizen. My partner of 19 years and I had to go to Ontario to be legally married and that is not even recognized in our state. But enough about that. Our thoughts and prayers are still for the good people of California to be successful and for things to finally start going the right way for our community. Hang in there California.

[Steven T.]

It nevers cesses to amaze me that we, as a nation, so passionately argue for things like the right to bear arms when it is clear that the amendment was meant to provide protection in the absence of police forces, national guard and the other law agencies we now have but when we are asked to use a constitution to limitrights, instead of protecting them, we have really failed as a nation.
Biblically, I do not ever remember God ever saying anything in his/her own voice about homosexuality, nor do I remember Jesus commenting about it. God, who created the universe, spoke directly to very few MEN and there was nothing about sexuality anyplace.All the "interpetations" come from what men THOUGHT was important because they didn't like it.
My partner and I cried as we saw the west coast results come in and Obama had won the election and it is on that I hang my hopes. I know he opposes same sex marriage but I hope he can at least get the federal laws on harrassment and discrimination to be inclusive of our GLBTQ family and pave the way to civil unions with all the same rights and priveledges as heterosexual marraige.

[Stan H]

Well I hope that 8 is overturned, however in the meantime I think there should be a nationwide boycott of California.
I know I an not going to be spending any of my gay dollars in a state that votes for discrimination.
When Californians joined in the boycott of Colorado several years ago it did have an affect, even though it was the courts that eventuall overturned the offending legislation.

[Larry]

Not being a lawyer, I'm wondering if the amendment possibly approved in Prop. 8 can't be thrown out for conflicting with "equal protection" currently in the California constitution. It seems to me that you can't have an amendment to the constitution that conflicts with something already there. It would make the constitution contradict itself. Hopefully someone more educated on constitutional law can answer this.

[A very happy Chris]

Let this be a lesson to the powers that be at HRC and NGLTF as well as to too many white queers: you have ignored queers of color and our very valid concerns for SO long, that I actually take pride, as a black gay man against marriage, in the passing of this proposition. Working with the churches and community groups when you need something is one thing; working with them to destigmatize homophobia when you don't is another. It's a lesson for you.

[Grandblvd03]

We should focus on civil unions. We should have promoted civil unions from day one, because polls show that most people support that. If this election is a wake-up call for republicans, then maybe it is also a wake-up call for us.

[James Eric Payne]

Thirty-one years ago, I graduated from high school and fled, never
looking back and never wishing to see the overwhelming majority of my
classmates ever again. At some point, though, as my health began to
deteriorate from the heart failure, I joined classmates.com and began
to correspond with those few people I, honestly, remembered fondly.
Last summer, though, my spouse and I vacationed in Philadelphia -
about 100 miles from where I attended school. One of the classmates
with whom I was re-introduced via "Classmates," told me our 30th
Reunion was at the same time as our vacation and just assumed I would
be there. I wasn't, when a formal invitation to attend was e-mailed to
me by our class President, I turned it down, immediately.

I remember high school all too well. I have a physical birth defect
that makes me look slightly disfigured. And when a person has a
physical birth defect that makes him look slightly disfigured, that
person may as well have a target painted on their shirt, front and
back. Students and teachers alike thought absolutely nothing of
heaping verbal abuse on me - my clearest memory of a science teacher
is him, while chastising a student who had, literally, been shouting
slurs at me is the teacher suddenly starting to laugh at one of the
student's comments, then looking at me, and saying: "C'mon, you got to
admit, that's funny!"

That's how I feel this morning: mentally sucker-punched by American
voters.

There has been a complete change of power in Washington; that can't be
seen, yet, as anything but a good thing - especially if it augurs the
return of civil liberties the current Administration simply stripped
from the populace in the name of "safety."

Two years ago, I was proud of living in Arizona; that state had been
the first in the nation to defeat a "Protect Marriage" amendment in
the polls. The problem was, the wording of that Amendment was so
over-reaching it would have affected thousands of straight couples who
were shacking up in retirement communities. I can remember, the day
after the Amendment failed, telling my pharmacist: "This doesn't mean
anything, they'll just reword it to say 'oh, we only meant the fags!'."

The Arizona State Legislature did just that, submitted that "Oh, we
only meant the fags can't get married!" ballot initiative.

And it passed.

In Oklahoma, Representative Sally Kern gets re-elected, despite
remarks replayed on the national stage in which she equates gays and
terrorism. Despite her public pronouncements she feels her duty as an
elected official is to first impose her religious views on the entire
population of the state. Just a quick scan at "The Oklahoman"
newspaper website, and the comments of readers to news stories
concerning her win, shows messages that, to paraphrase, say: "Now she
can get the fags!"

Rather than her anti-gay stances working against her, they actually
helped her gain re-election, and have emboldened the voters to become
vocal... "Get the fags!", indeed.

In Arkansas, voters decided it was far better to let children remain in state-
and private-run orphanages than it was to allow them to be adopted and placed in
a loving family, if that loving family included gay or lesbian parents. I guess
the voters there decided "You just can't trust fags around kids, you
know how they are," submitting themselves to our worst fears and their own internal blackness. And the kids suffer.

Florida's "Protect Marriage" amendment passed - despite legal
challenges that, if it were any other amendment, would have kept the
initiative off the ballot, altogether.

But what really gives me the "Back in High School Blues" is
California. One of only two states in which we are allowed to marry.
One of the most tolerant in the nation.

California had two amendments, one passed, the other passing, on their
ballot yesterday that I find especially interesting when looked at,
side by side.

Proposition 2 on the California ballot was an initiative concerning
the treatment of farm animals, and that animals destined for the
slaughterhouse would have "room to move."

Proposition 8 on the California ballot was an initiative that would
remove civil rights from a portion of the population. "Fags cannot get
married."

Those poor, poor farm animals... those God damned fags!

As Mr. Schaak, that science teacher in rural Pennsylvania said to me
32 years ago: "Hey, you got to admit, that's funny!"

No, it's not funny. Just like 32 years ago, what's going on doesn't
make me grin, or want to laugh... it makes me feel like I've been
gut-punched, yet I know it's important, even though the pain makes me
grimace, to keep my emotions in check. Though the tears are right
behind my eyes, if I can't hold them back, it'll be seen as a sign of
weakness, and if they see that, things will only get worse.

[NC_resident]

I am an NC resident and hoping that preliminary numbers hold out and the state drags itself into the 21st century along with more progressive parts of the country. I am very disappointed with Ca Prop 8 -- can anyone tell me where I should be sending a check to help with upcoming legal arguments? My only solace is that with Obama in office for at least the next 4 yrs and a majority in Congress, he will be able to make several supreme court nominations. still, very disappointing.

[Cindy in AZ]

I have to chuckle. The Advocate was so willing and happy to throw other states like Arizona and Florida under the bus in order to concentrate on the fight against California's Prop 8. One of their poll questions a few issues ago was something to the effect of "is it worth it if Arizona loses, as long as California wins?" And the vast majority of respondents said yes. So now I hope you Californians feel like the assholes that you are. I'm glad Prop 8 passed.

[truthsayer]

you sound like a very happy idiot chris! Happy about what?!? That your own race just helped to shit all over another minority?

[Bryan]

The only good news (besides Obama's victory) is that it looks like the Democrats in New York snatched away the majority in the state senate from Republicans and now control both houses. Governor Paterson is now in a position to make good on his promise to bring marriage equality to the Empire State, making New York the first state to open marriage for gays and lesbians without judicial intervention.

As for California, flood the courts. Don't give up fighting for equality. Justice will prevail!

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jfIbBWS-N6OKhIAw0QNqxb3yM2owD948IGCO0

[Quasi]

There are a few things we MUST do immediately to stop all this bigotry running amuck.

1.) Out everyone we know who we find in the closet. It is a matter of survival, and people who stay in the closet are bigots of the highest degree. We need more soldiers on our side, not less. They MUST be drafted, like it or not.

2.) Begin a campaign to make a bigger division between church and state. Tax the churches, all of their organizations, all their divisions and companies. If they are trying to be Political Action Committees, they must pay like all the secular organizations which do the same. Their desire for an "after-life" does not trump my right to a decent, kind and bigotry-free "before-death". In short, they can no longer force their agenda down my throat. They are WRONG and it is the utmost in EVIL.

3.) I will stop being cooperative to anyone who in any way gives me any sort of grief about my relationship with my partner of over 32 years, and our life together. I will find a way to bring a lawsuit each and every time I feel the least bit impinged upon. We must continue to bring lawsuits against anyone and everyone who pushes us the least bit too far. We MUST tie up the court system and make ourselves known. We CANNOT any longer accept their evil bigotry and discrimination.

4.) I will become more aware of which companies are discriminating, and if I have any knowledge about them, I will vote with my dollars. We must begin boycotting companies and organizations which discriminate against us. It is MANDATORY that we also tell them why they are not getting our business. I also refer you to the HRC buyer’s guide documentation:

www.hrc.org/buyersguide/hrc_buyersguide-11_29.pdf

5.) We MUST PUBLISH the names of the evil ones who rail against us and those who donate money to support them. What they can threaten to do to those who did not donate to their causes, we must make it known country-wide and make the world see their evil bigoted ways are bad for business. We must LOUDLY tell them why it is so!

6.) Lastly, I will continue to live my life as I see fit. I will not allow others to bad-mouth me or my partner. I will call them out on their evil ways whenever I find it affecting me, my partner and our community. I did this once to a lady from a fundamentalist church, and she became speechless. It will work, and they will know they have a lot of forgiveness to pray for the next time they invoke the name of God. Make them think and think hard. Make them worry their soul is in danger for being so evil and unkind. Theirs is the mortal sin, not my truth, love and goodness.

7.) They all need to know that MARRIAGE IS NOTHING MORE THAN A GOVERNMENT SANCTIONED CONTRACT. Their bigotry and evil ways are stopping us from entering into a secular contract which has for 200 years been sanctioned and approved by a direct interpretation by the US Supreme Court. Marriage is not a religious institution. It is nothing more than a secular contract, especially codified by government and sanctioned by the state.

Please! We must continue to do all that we can. This is just a start. Do more, and do it often.

[Wayne]

· 75% of black women voted Yes on Prop 8.
· 54% of Latino men voted Yes, and 52% of Latino women voted Yes
· 70% of Blacks (Male and Female) voted Yes, 54% of Latino's (Male and Female) voted Yes.
· A slim majority of Whites, 51% voted No on Prop 8.
· 61% of young people (18-24) voted No on Prop 8.
· 59% of 25-29 year olds voted No on Prop 8.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

[Pat]

Either side would have kept this going on and on, but we are talking about individual rights here and no WAY should we just "let it go."
I will be honest and say I am one of the white women who voted for Obama and watched as he won just bawling. It was so beautiful. And then to know that 70% of blacks voted AGAINST ME!? I feel betrayed and stabbed in the back. We supported them and they throw us under the bus. AWFUL! I have no idea if I am still married or not. At least I wasn't one of those that had my marriage invalidated TWICE!!
I have faith in Barack tho. He will educate his people about UNITY and inclusiveness (which they seeem to have forgotten about).
WE WILL WIN EVENTUALLY!! 2008 OR 2018!

[Tom in SF Bay Area]

Does anyone know what happened to LA County? If you look at the results county by county, everything looks as it should EXCEPT LA. Is this where the election was lost?

[Pat]

THANK YOU Diane Olson and Robin Tyler!! The first of 17,000 couples!! I am one of those couples (married July 25 in Sac) and am so thrilled that the lawsuits have begun!!

[angie]

well the was i see it is that its going to happen so why not let it happen right now in our life time????
yes we are a part of history with the first african american president but why not make a bigger part of history?
its going to happen let it happen today.
and for all of those who voted yes on 8????????
your mean go home